Interview with Richard Saunder
Karma One: Some Mind Control victim’s – from Kathleen Sullivan to Cathy O’Brien – and less known victims all agreed to says that they have been guided to underground military bases, sometimes very weird. Is it plausible or was is a deliberate set up, a show to intimidate them?
Richard Sauder: There certainly have been many people who have reported being abducted, in some cases seemingly by American military units or intelligence operatives, and taken to mysterious underground facilities or bases where they have witnessed and experienced highly unusual events and procedures, in some cases even involving entities that appear non-human, or perhaps extraterrestrial.
As the numbers of such reports grow over the years, I am inclined to believe that at least some of these reports must be credible, and maybe a great many of them. There is frequently also an element of mind control involved in these stories. In my research, I have personally communicated with a number of people who have reported being taken to strange underground facilities.
I can mention the ones I have spoken with who have already gone public with their stories.
Christa Tilton, who is perhaps best known for coming forth with her story about being taken to what she called the Dulce base back in the 1980s, where she saw very strange technological apparatuses and creatures, and had many bizarre experiences
Melinda Leslie, who is very actively involved in researching and speaking about this very theme as a result of her own abductions and experiences
Larry Warren, the UFO investigator and co-author with Peter Robbins of the book, Left at East Gate, who was taken to a secret, deep underground base beneath the American military base at Bentwaters in southern England
the mind control researcher and activist, Carol Rutz, author of the book, A Nation Betrayed, who has also written and spoken on these topics as a consequence of her own horrific experiences as a child and young woman.
In this regard, I might also mention the writings and research of the late Karla Turner, whose work also touched on this question, in part, and with whom I had some very brief contact before her death.
Of course these experiences and abductions to underground bases are staged! In the sense that they are not normal, everyday events, it is only logical to say that they are staged.
The question is: why, and by whom, are they staged?
The more I work with these sorts of questions and stories the more I am forced to question the nature of reality itself.
It may be the case that virtually everything that happens on this planet is “staged” or in some sense programmed by the directors of the theatrical production called “Life on Earth” that we are all starring in. Maybe the directors mostly remain just out of sight in the wings, or underground. Though there is definitely a mind control theme that reoccurs in many of these stories, there is also a genetic theme that keeps popping up too.
Perhaps what you are getting at in your question is whether all human beings, all “apparent” human beings, are really human, or terrestrial humans, at any rate.
Perhaps others have so seamlessly woven themselves into our race and our reality that they can stage operations where they move humans back and forth between our reality and theirs, using the American military, and subterranean military installations, as one cover for their machinations. Of course this raises the question as to how much of what we see and recognize as “terrestrial human” reality really is “terrestrial human” reality!
The short answer for me is: who knows?
I have arrived at the point where it is clear to me that we are positively awash in a sea of misinformation, disinformation, lies, propaganda, deceit and cover-ups of every conceivable and inconceivable variety.
Who in their right mind believes anymore that they can read the daily newspaper or watch the television news broadcasts and find out what “really” is happening on planet Earth? Probably like most people reading this interview I went away to school and learned from my teachers the “facts” of and about life, the world, history, society, the universe, and so forth ad nauseam.
Now I am questioning almost everything!
Karma One: Why the Mind Control and ritual abuse phenomenon is so important and take such an extend in the USA ?
Richard Sauder: I suppose the easy answer is that at present the United States military and economic systems are the most influential on the planet. Whether that will continue to be the case as we move into the future is very much an open question. Nevertheless, at present the United States is the dominant world player and it throws its weight around very violently.
Apparently, such a brutal and violent system needs a lot of sacrificial victims to maintain its bloody and tyrannical reign. One could surmise that there must be malevolent Magicians practicing their dark arts behind the scenes, and that they prey on the mental, emotional and physical life energies of innocent victims to fuel their nefarious agenda.
In a related vein, can it be coincidence that at the time of Spain’s cruel and exploitive imperial expansion into the Americas that the Catholic Church was engaged in the inexpressible barbarism of the Inquisition – how many people did the Catholics disembowel, behead, impale, burn at the stake, draw and quarter, torture to death?
I would also call what the (so-called) “Christian” Church did during the Spanish Inquisition very definitely a sort of Ritual and Sadistic Satanic Abuse. So I think this is a recurring theme in history, and the United States is but a more recent example of this sort of thing.
Don’t forget that the role of secret, initiatic societies has been intimately linked to the exercise of political, religious and economic power right down through the millennia. In the contemporary American case, remember that George W. Bush is an initiated member of the very secretive Skull and Bones fraternity at Yale University.
From what is known publicly the rites and rituals of this fraternity are very lurid and macabre. There are hundreds of initiated members of this secret society in influential positions in American government, high finance and industry.
We know that the members are loyal to each other and their society, but we do not truly know the real aims of the fraternity, which have never been publicly revealed. But if the actions and statements of George W. Bush are any indication then the goals of this fraternity have to do with the exercise of raw, naked power with little concern for law, social convention, ethics or anything else but brute power.
A type of fascism, in a word. And fascism is inevitably associated with sadism, and satanic mentalities and practices, such as horrific butchery and torture, political repression, suppression of free speech and thought, and so forth.
I suppose that’s your answer: there is a faction in the United States that strongly tends in a fascist direction, and this faction presently has a lot of influence in the government, military, industry, banking, the mass media, the universities and religious institutions. It is almost as if to unleash hell on Earth, these dark fascist forces require sacrificial victims to facilitate their taking power and control.
It is a very dark scenario, to be sure.
Karma one: It seems that some programmers and mind control specialists don’t use anymore drugs (like in the MK Ultra times) but use mainly wave generating machine that influences the mind. Are those machines the ultimate weapons? Do you know if the « mind reading machine » is functional and really working today ?
Richard Sauder: Oh, but I think they still do use chemical and pharmaceutical substances for mind control, especially for mass mind control here in the United States. To wit, a full 60% of the municipal water systems in the U.S.A. are treated with fluoride compounds as a matter of official, public health policy. Of course, fluoride has a whole suite of negative effects on the human mind and body. It leads to mental and physical passivity, and makes people more tractable from the standpoint of political and social control.
I have read, for example, that the Nazis experimented with fluoride in the drinking water in the prison camps during WW-II as a means of controlling the inmates and prisoners. It gets worse, the American public is one of the most drugged populations anywhere ever. A very large number of children in the schools here are drugged by the school psychologists – for having “behavior problems” or “attention deficit disorders”, etc.
Millions of people, including a very large number of children, are taking powerful mind- and emotion-altering substances such as valium, prozac, thorazine and many other drugs.
The rate of use of psychiatric drugs in this society is very high. Please understand that this society is becoming like a huge mental asylum full of “patients” who must be cured to be able to function “normally” in society. In the Soviet Union they used to send dissidents to psychiatric wards for reeducation. Here they spot the kids who cause trouble when they are still 8 or 10 years old and then the government psychologists in the schools step in and begin the psychiatric treatment and “reeducation” while they are still in primary or secondary school.
They don’t wait until they are 20 or 30 years old to drug them. They do it right away, without delay, when they are still children.
Much more sophisticated than those crude Soviets, don’t you think?
Not to mention the flood of chemical additives in the foods and beverages that the majority of the population consume. The modern human being is a walking chemical experiment-thanks to the food and chemical industries. I have already mentioned the fluoride compounds that are added to the water in most American cities and towns now, but the foods also contain many troubling chemicals – such as aluminum compounds and other substances such as monosodium glutamate, which is a very common food additive and which in high and cumulative doses causes brain damage.
So I would say that chemical mind control and mind destruction have gone mainstream. The chemicals are being fed to the population by the tons, in the food, in the water, and in the beverages that they consume.
But you are right, electronic technologies that rely on the propagation of electromagnetic waves are also very much in play. Many people have focused on the dangers posed by so-called atmospheric heaters such as the HAARP system in Alaska, and I share those concerns I might add, but I think that we should not overlook other dangers closer to our brains, such as the ubiquitous cellular telephone(cell phone).
It seems that people nowadays cannot survive without going everywhere with a cell phone glued to their head – just one inch from their brain. HAARP may be thousands of miles away in Alaska – but why paste a radio transmitter to your head and zap your brain with radio waves for hours on end? And yet millions of people do this.
I am suggesting that maybe a very effective way to control people with electronic mind control is to persuade them that to live their life in a “normal”, modern fashion that they must personally apply the portable electronic mind control device to the side of their head as frequently as possible, and as quickly as possible –each and every time that it rings! Quick!!
Anyone who would like to know more about the health threat to the human brain from cell phones can find a great deal of information on this topic on the internet using key search words and any major search engine.
Then there is the more esoteric question, perhaps, of so-called psychotronic technologies that can target the human brain very directly to induce auditions and hallucinations, or extreme mood and emotional changes such as great fear or blind, animal panic.
There is a great deal of research suggesting that these sorts of technologies have been and are being weaponized, for use on military battlefields, and also for social and political control domestically. I might add that I have been told that the American military does have such devices that permit the direct targeting of even the individual human mind.
My research corroborates what I have been told 100%. Forget about a dystopian future – we are living in a dystopian present. For me, based on everything I have read, the data uncovered by my research and what I have been told, yes, electronic mind control technology is very advanced and if we hope to have a human and humane future on this planet we have to act now.
Not 100 years from now, we must not leave it to our children to act in some future time – no, we, those reading these words now, it is up to us to act and in our lifetime, beginning right now.
Perhaps, you are thinking, but I live in Belgium or France or Switzerland or Italy – surely he cannot mean me? But, oh yes, I do mean you – you! Exactly you! – whoever and wherever you may be.
Because Pandora’s box is open and the technological demons are loose and abroad over the face of the entire Earth. These issues, these questions are now our common concern and this rapid push towards totalitarian control of the planet, and every man, woman and child on Earth, body, mind and soul, is advancing rapidly.
Act now, while you still have a modicum of freedom, or prepare to kneel in bondage and accept your chemical, pharmaceutical, electronic, political, economic and social enslavement. It’s really just that simple. Deal with it or don’t deal with it, but the reality will not vanish if you fail to look at it.
That’s the situation we are in.
Karma One: Is it possible to simulate – as the late Jim Keith used to say – any kind of event, any kind of virtual reality and make believe to a victim and extraterrestrial abduction?
Richard Sauder: Yes, I think it is. In my view you can even go further and hypothesize that the entire experience we have as a race is a kind of virtual reality. Maybe it is a question of multiple levels of virtual reality, and some actors within the virtual reality game learn how to “game the game” and mirror sub-levels of virtual reality for their own purposes. I am certainly not the only person to express an opinion along these lines.
There are a lot of movies, books and articles that explore this theme.
Who or what finally is behind the big virtual reality game I do not know, presuming that that is what we are dealing with – and it is a hypothesis that I take seriously.
Karma one: This question is the consequence of the previous one: the extraterrestrial abductions don’t really exist but they are used as a smoke screen for Mind Control experiments involving solely military personal and psychiatrists (and why not, fake and artificial alien beings)?
Richard Sauder: I think the situation is very muddled and unclear, and by conscious design. I think there may be extraterrestrials here, though I cannot prove that. We do know that the CIA and others have had very serious mind control programs. MK-Ultra is certainly just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. I suspect that both human military, and also non-military non-human agents are carrying out abductions, sometimes alone and sometimes in concert with each other.
Why? I don’t know for sure. I have as many questions as anyone. But it occurs to me that one motivation for all this abducting and mind controlling could be genetic and archival, in this sense: geneticists tell us that something like 97% of the human genome is so-called “junk” DNA.
To them, this “junk” DNA is meaninglessly repetitive nonsense. I am wondering however, if a great deal of data may not be concealed in this seemingly repetitive “nonsense” – racial data, racial memory, a galactic informational archive, a cosmic memory bank, if you will. Maybe we are all full of it, and depending on your genetic line you may carry more or less of certain types of information that is valuable or meaningful to this or that galactic or even terrestrial faction.
Maybe as genetic science advances – the marriage of biochemistry, genetics, micro-electronics and digital technology permit the downloading and intelligent deciphering of the information encoded in our DNA – maybe stretching back millions, even billions of years. This information may be a very hot commodity, for all sorts of reasons, on the galactic market and right here on Earth, within the super-secret confines of powerful initiatic societies, or the military-industrial-espionage complex, to cite but two possible examples.
It does seem possible that the military and rogue psychiatrists may use screen realities of “alien” abduction to conceal their own activities. But perhaps the opposite occurs as well – maybe so-called “aliens” also use screen memories, in this case to make themselves appear to be human military units!
There may also be other humans on the planet who are not of terrestrial origin, but who also who may seek to cloak and conceal their activities. The more I learn and research, and the more I reflect, the more it seems to me that it is likely that there are other planets across the galaxy with resident human populations. It even occurs to me that this may be one factor in the very obvious UFO cover-up. There are many UFO encounters where contactees report seeing so-called Nordic aliens, who are completely human in appearance, and resemble northern Europeans.
Think how explosive politically and socially it would be if the human population of this planet became aware that not only is there life on other planets in the galaxy, but that there are other human populations out there, and that the truth of human history is FAR, FAR DIFFERENT than we have been taught by our alleged academic, religious and political “authorities”and that human life and human history span the galaxy stretching unimaginably far back into the mists of time.
Go out alone on a dark, clear night, gaze up at the Milky Way and ponder that.
Karma One: Valerie Wolff or Karla Turner made a connection between two different phenomenon: victims of mind control and ritual abuses with victims of alien abductions. Is it valid?
Richard Sauder: I think it is. It seems that there was a huge upsurge in the mind control programs in the post-WWII period, the same time frame when the UFO and accompanying contactee and thenabductee experiences began to come to public light. The military and intelligence agencies have a shadowy involvement in both phenomena, that is for certain.
The problem is that it is very difficult to research either of these phenomena separately, let alone together. The information that has been brought forward for public consumption has not come easily, but with great effort and frequently at considerable personal cost. There may be a kind of feed-back loop between the phenomena, who knows?
Maybe mind control technology, techniques and manipulation make the parameters of the space-time continuum more fluid, or open our group mind to other dimensions or realities, like weakening a dam of consciousness or unplugging a reality continuum. Or maybe certain facets of the suite of various UFO-related phenomena led to certain experimental projects in the realm of mind control in an effort to understand or gain control of the UFO activity that was being observed.
I don’t know for sure, but, yes, I do believe there is a connection.
Karma One: The Mind Control at large (control through media, drugs, religions…) could follow an hidden agenda: forbid the human being to develop a connection with natural phenomenon, the development of the Kundalini. What does it really mean? Did you find some real and material proofs, evidences of this fact, the existence of such an agenda?
Richard Sauder: Well, I do not doubt for a minute that the goal of all of the chemical additives, pharmaceutical compounds, electronic mind control and myriad other methods of body and mind control is to prevent humanity from achieving its natural, glorious potential. Sure, the dampening of the Kundalini is part of that.
For me the Kundalini is nothing more nor less than the conscious, cosmic life force and energy that pervades the universe from the smallest micro- to the largest macro-level and all points and levels between. It is at once supremely powerful, and yet exquisitely subtle and delicate beyond the capacity of the ordinary human mind to comprehend.
Imagine mind-boggling, stupendous force on the level of a galactic power source with billions of huge stars and their solar systems in its orbit, simultaneously intimately informed by the nimble grace of a delicate butterfly, or the lilting mating call of a tiny bird rustling in a garden shrub as it searches out a nesting location on a beautiful spring day, or the intricate spirals of an infinitude of sub-atomic particles incessantly spinning through the void of creation for billions of years!
World without end, amen!
That’s the Kundalini, and so much more. And it’s all alive and bursting with grace, real spiritual grace, and power and consciousness and staggering self- and other-awareness that will leave you open-mouthed with amazement and astonishment. That’s what the miserable wretches that are trying to impose their pathetic totalitarian control over this planet do not want you to know!
They don’t want you to have that! They want you poverty stricken, on your knees with fear and trembling, vulnerable, stupid, ignorant, weak, sickly, malnourished, confused, sad, downcast, exploited, under- and mis-educated, manipulable, helpless, propagandized.
By way of contrast, the well-balanced and fully risen Kundalini is inspiring, invigorating, enlightening, uplifting, encouraging, sane, supremely intelligent, self-confident, bright, energetic, healthful, cheerful, hopeful, creative, communicative and so forth.
The present rulers of this planet often despise and persecute people in whom the Kundalini manifests, if even partially. That is one reason we have had witch burnings, and so many other pogroms throughout history.
To my knowledge there have been few, if any, serious scientific studies of the Kundalini. It is in the nature of modern science, which is very materialistic and reductionist in its philosophy and methods, to ignore or ridicule phenomena such as the Kundalini. So I am not aware of much research or investigation in this regard.
Ideally, one who endeavors to awaken the kundalini using such techniques as meditation on the chakras, self-hypnosis, chanting, various types of yoga, etc. should first purify his or her body, mind and emotions. Otherwise, blockages in the mind, body and/or emotions can lead to physical, emotional or even psychiatric complications of diverse sorts, maybe even with fatal consequences.
Playing with the Kundalini is not something you try for one weekend because you are bored. The energies involved can be very stupendous – imagine an actual lightning bolt blasting up your spine and out the top of your head! That is what it can feel like. Now appreciate how such energies could harm someone whose emotional make-up was unstable, whose mind is fearful, or whose body is weak, sickly or malnourished.
I have found the books of Gopi Krishna very interesting and helpful. His Kundalini awakening was powerful, sustained and prolonged. Lee Sannella, M.D. has written a little book, The Kundalini Experience, from a more clinical and scientific perspective. These are some of the books I have found helpful and enlightening. There is a great deal more information about the kundalini out there in books, magazines and articles, some of it good, some of it bad – a great deal of it is written by people who do not always know what they are talking about, unfortunately.
In general, I suppose the guide for the Kundalini is like everything else in life – try to be respectful of yourself and others, try to love the Earth and other life forms, shun warfare, embrace peace, strive to understand life and the universe and your place in it, ask for guidance and help, meditate on the heart chakra – I believe it to be the best and master chakra, and have an attitude of reverent awe and appreciation for the wonder of creation and the opportunity to be alive and aware and taking part in it all.
Karma One: Scott Peck, a famous therapist in the New Age circles, author of «People of the lie» gives a certain definition of the evil:
the exercise, the use of political power as a way to impose the will of a person on another by coercion or occult tools to prevent any spiritual development of the human being.
Peck has invented the concept of a kind of satanic and strategic policy as a weapon to break in pieces consciousness. Satanic worshipers and programmers forced their victims to submit themselves to a system where Good and Evil are equal and ethic does not exist.
What do you think?
Richard Sauder: It does seem like a project fitting that description is well underway on planet Earth. There is conscious malevolence on the part of those who are seeking to exert their diabolical will over this planet and everything and everyone on it. You have to wonder if people like George W. Bush, to cite but one salient example, can even be described as human beings, so low is their state of consciousness and so great their willingness, nay eagerness, to inflict violence and suffering on others.
It is interesting that in several photographs in recent years it is clear that George Bush is wearing some type of small device, presumably an electronic apparatus, on his back, between his shoulder blades, strapped to his body under his clothing. What does this mean? Does he, indeed, have a portable electronic device strapped to his back? If so, why? What is it? Is it some sort of life support machine, without which he would die? Something else?
It is a bizarre situation, but it is readily evident even on casual inspection of multiple photos that have been widely disseminated by the news media – and yet – and yet! – the same news media do not even inquire into this strange reality.
Are we perhaps dealing with a pure puppet, who takes direction from his handlers via an electronic control device strapped to his back? I suspect that that could be the case. The President of the United States is but a puppet for hidden masters behind the scenes who wish us all very great harm and will spare no effort to subjugate us, all of us, to their violent, iron will.
Our future depends on whether we bow to their pathetic demands and accede to their agenda of death and destruction, or , or! – instead jointly establish a cooperative, peaceful, uplifting, sane, healthy, Kundalini-enlightened culture that takes its rightful place in an open galactic society full of cosmic potential and joy.