Exclusive Interview with Sergeant Clifford Stone

Specialist Sergeant Clifford Stone (ret.) spent twenty two years serving in the U.S. Army (1969-1990) where he claims he was covertly assigned to elite UFO crash retrieval teams known as projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly

Sergeant Stone testifies that he was recruited for this covert service upon his enlistment into the U.S. Army and secretly served for 22 years without his immediate commanders, military colleagues and family knowing about this

What follows is the transcript of an exclusive interview conducted with Sgt Stone on July 20, 2005 where he describes how his specialized training was done in a way that wasn’t recorded in his military record; how he would be secretly summoned to his classified assignments without his regular army commander knowing; and the actual duties he performed when secret teams were tasked with the retrieval of extraterrestrial vehicles and recovery of extraterrestrial biological entities, both dead and alive.

Sgt Stone’s testimony is both startling and revealing in terms of the information it provides in how ordinary military servicemen are forced to served in elite service units concerning UFOs without being fully briefed, being deprived of the normal career recognition and benefits that occur for regular service in the U.S. military; and intimidated into maintaining secrecy.


All this is done without regular military commanders being aware of this thereby suggesting a shadowy military force existing within the United States military and the military of other countries that is exclusively responsible for UFO related issues. What follows is the first in a two part exclusive interview on Clifford Stone’s experiences on these covert UFO crash retrieval teams.

*I wish to thank Paola Harris who kindly contacted Sgt Stone to arrange this interview with him.


(Dr Michael Salla)
C.S. (Sgt Clifford Stone)



Part 1.

Covert Service on Project Moon Dust and UFO Crash Retrievals

 Can you briefly outline how you were recruited for UFO crash retrievals and the principal military departments involved?

C.S. Well, I joined the Army, and outside of that I can’t say any other organization. It was just that you were brought into it. There was another organization that had nothing to do with the army, I know that because when I put in my retirement, my retirement was approved until this other organization found out [Ed. the ‘organization’ is the ‘control group’ for UFO related affairs]. Then I was attached to Fort Bliss pending approval of my retirement, and I can prove that my retirement was already approved. I have documentation on that, but the less you knew the more comfortable they felt.


Also, what a lot of people overlook is if we use the word ‘recruited’ into this field, was they need certain talents certain people have. What happens is that they have control of it. You have no control whatsoever. I don’t know if that makes any sense or not but they really do. And I am sure it started when I was a child. Initially when I tried to enlist in the army I was … rejected from military service, that was in December, 1967. And I was permanently rejected from military service. I was classified as 4F, and I would assume that the Draft Board has a record of that.

Can you confirm whether you did any training as ‘typist’ which is on your military record and how this related to the actual training you did for the specialized activities you performed? …

C.S. Which needs clarification because no one has ever gotten that straight. OK, I went into the military and when I enlisted, I enlisted for MOS, Military Occupational Specialty 71B, which is clerk typist. I was then and am to this very day a lousy clerk typist. I can’t type worth heck, but the situation is I tried for other MOS’s but they said “don’t rock the boat because you were . . . rejected from military service so let’s just take it easy, admin., not a problem.” Well, I went into that, going through Basic [Training], had some situations with UFO’s while I was in Basic that made it clear that somebody already knew that prior to getting into the service I had an interest in UFO’s.


It didn’t all start to click together until I got to AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. At AIT I went ahead and I was supposed to be trained as a clerk typist, but when you first get to AIT there are a couple of days you don’t go into training. Normally they started on a Monday and I got there one day during the week, other than Monday, so my training didn’t start until the following Monday, so they put me on ‘Detail’. And initially I was handing out medical records at the hospital there, when people came in. That went for two or three days.

When I was supposed to start training they had me up on a cleaning detail and sent me to the post headquarters which also housed the G2 office, which was military intelligence. There was a person there who was on special duty to Ozarks in South Carolina and he went ahead and was very interested in what I knew about UFO’s, up to and including the point where he was showing me things that were highly classified. I knew what Top Secret meant. I didn’t know what the letters meant after Top Secret at that time. Now I do know what they stand for . . . and I was a little concerned because I didn’t have a clearance at that time. After I got through Basic and got through AIT which he told me he would keep in touch when he left.

I went to my first permanent duty station after leave, and that was 36 Civil Affairs Company, part of the 96 Civil Affairs Group at Fort Lee, Virginia. I announced to them immediately that I did not know anything about typing, so the First Sergeant went ahead and said: “not only do you not know anything about typing you are color blind too.” And I said, ‘Pardon me’, so he said: “I’ll be right back.” And he goes into the company commander and tells the company commander something and the company commander comes out.


The company commander asks me what branch of service did I enlist into, and I said “Sir, I enlisted into the United States Army, it should be obvious on here”. He said: “do you know the difference between blue and green”, and I found the question kind of ridiculous, but I said “yes sir, I do”, and he said, “Ok”.


So they told me at that time, OK you say you can’t type, would you mind being the unit NBC [Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical] communications non-commissioned officer? And I said “sure, what does that encompass?” Well, we have to send you to school, so it wasn’t no more than a month of so later that I ended up going to school at Fort MacCallum, Alabama.

It was a three week course in the unit NBC, non-commissioned officer. Upon completion of that I came back to my unit and when I came back to my unit it was just taking care of the protective masks, the protective NBC protective equipment. I have the communications equipment which also consisted of several quick 25’s, which are field radios, little more than a hundred 312’s which were filled telephones and switchboard that we had, which was an SP22 switchboard.


A month after that I was assigned to be on the quick reaction group in the event there was an NBC incident that was to occur, then we would move out. Now under that guise I was used on at least three occasions while I was there dealing with UFOs.

You say that you participated in a training program for UFO crash retrieval teams under the rubric of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Weapons Crisis Response Team. Is this training generic for all types of NBC crises including UFO crash retrievals, or was your training specifically for UFO crash retrievals and associated NBC problems?

C.S. It was generic for all NBC situations. When it came to UFO’s the general stance was they didn’t exist so they didn’t go out of there way to make believers out of people who were involved in that. You were hand picked by somebody, and that somebody wasn’t army officials. That somebody’s personal opinion [was] in the Alphabet Soup of the intelligence community of the United States.


I can’s say CIADIA or who. They hand picked you. And when you went there and there was a UFO incident, and you knew it was a UFO incident, the protocol went basically the same. And you were always debriefed being told it was a Soviet space craft, it was a Stealth aircraft, it was one of our aircraft. If you saw the craft you knew better.

Were NBC units used for normal duties in addition to specialized crash retrieval duties?

C.S. Oh absolutely. Like rule number one, don’t use an NBC unit when it comes to UFO’s. Don’t use an NBC unit on a quick reaction call on a UFO more than one time. Because what happens is that the people … normally have clearances between confidential and secret, mostly secret. But if you’re involved in a recovery of even debris of a UFO, then what happens is now its top secret/SCI, meaning that Top Secret Sensitive Compartmented Information, which requires more than a Top Secret clearance to view the material.


And that would be on a one time basis; however, they would have people in there that they hand picked that would be involved throughout their career dealing with UFO’s. And they would also go ahead and make the determination on assignment where those people go to try and have them in pre-position in locations where they anticipated there would be some kind of UFO related activity.

Did you speak to others participating in the NBC Crisis training and were they also involved in UFO crash retrieval duties?

C.S. Oh absolutely. The one thing that people have a problem with and is hard for them to understand is that the best protection is to have situations where you have real life, every day events that can occur and have contingency plans for life for them. Now if a UFO crashes, those thing’s [UFOs] contingency plan works very good for the recovery of items. Of course where they go is entirely different and the protocol is a little different, not much but a little different. For example, not everything is classified if you have an NBC accident, a nuclear, biological, chemical accident.

But if you have an incident of “high strangeness” involving an object of unknown origin, that’s how they refer to them. Then there is a total blackout on any type of information. Before you could call or do anything, you had to go ahead and be debriefed. If you were there for three days or better you couldn’t call home to check on the family, you couldn’t do anything. You had to go ahead and wait for the debriefing before you could call home or say anything. Then of course you couldn’t talk about the event and the contingency was always part of the debriefing. Even though you knew better it was always fallen space debris that we had sent up. They didn’t want any diplomatic incidents so they steered clear.

There were a couple of times there were Soviet space debris, but they still declared it being a UFO. So you were involved in assisting with that. But you only had two teams. You had the A team which had to go ahead and arrive there within two hours of the event. The B team would show up within four hours of the event. They came from different locations. You never had them come, and when I was working there at Fort Lee, they always had 72 hour alert facility, which meant there were people in that alert facility for 72 hours at a time….

Is NBC training classified information, or are only those who serve on Project Moon Dust that don’t have this training recorded on their military record?

C.S. During the training it was mundane training. I mean it was normal training and NBC period. It was classified; the lowest classification in any block of instruction was at least confidential, ranging from confidential to secret. But keep in mind it had a real world mission. Everybody getting trained there was… the intent wasn’t to go ahead and recover extraterrestrial vehicles or debris thereof, that was not the intent of NBC.


Now when you come to Moon Dust and Blue Fly, it wasn’t the initial intent of Moon Dust and Blue Fly for the recovery of extraterrestrial vehicles, however, it’s covered by objects of “Unknown Origin. UFO’s you try and steer clear of, extraterrestrial anything you try to keep away from. The one thing you use is ‘Object of Unknown Origin’. But I was close enough to know that in some of the incidences that’s what we were involved with, vehicles not of this world.

Was your military record purged of any mention of the specialized training you did for NBC training and for the crash retrieval teams, and only reflects your ‘cover position’ as a clerical administrative typist?

C.S. Actually it does. Actually one of the biggest mistakes they did, is that, and I can send you a copy of it, it was the fact that I spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. I spent two months at Fort Lee, Virginia, and 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama, TDY, and it reflects me being TDY. Well, one, [an] Executive Order from the President of the United States was that you could not be TDY for more than 179 days.


Two, it was a three week course, it was then, it is to this day a three week course. So, what does it reflect by the way? It reflects I went Fort Lee, then TDY to Fort MacCallum, then went to Vietnam. In reality that is not the case. I have my medical records reflecting that I went to the dispensary during the time I was supposed to be at Fort MacCallum outside of the three week period that I was there attending the NBC course. I also have a certificate of achievement for my tenure there at Fort Lee, Virginia.

What was the “certificate of achievement” for?

C.S. It was in relation to doing ‘the job’.

Do you have any photos or evidence of having done the NBC course?

C.S. That occurred in 1969, not right off the top of my hat. But the nice thing about it is that it does give the course, so when some of the people got a copy of that, they could go ahead and head up on the course number and they even took pictures. I’ve lived a strange life, I don’t have a copy of the picture I did have. I don’t have a copy of my certificate but I can get that. I know for a fact I can get that. I just haven’t, how can I put this? For me UFO’s isn’t a business, I know what I am saying to be true because I lived it.


And you know a person can either believe or disbelieve. That’s not what I am about, and right now one of the big things is with the documentation and trying to get the Air Force to move ahead, and I know Moon Dust and Blue Fly has a lot of material that they haven’t released. They will either say it is misplaced, it was destroyed, but that is an out-and-out lie. They have even told members of Congress of that.

Is there anyone that you served with that you can remember that I may be able to contact?

C.S. One name that comes to mind is, I think his last name was Jacks. Now he won’t be hard to locate he was at Fort Belvoir and he was at that time army contingent to NSANational Security Agency. As a matter of fact my plane ticket was stolen and he actually gave me a ride back to Fort Lee Virginia.

Do you remember his Rank?

C.S. His was a Spec-5, Specialist fifth class.

Do you have a record of any others who did the NBC course with you?

C.S. They have the list of each class that went through there. Like I say my records look like that. I’ll provide you a copy with my record DH2-1 because I know that … I was there only a couple of months at Fort Lee, and then spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum. You can’t do that on TDY [Temporary Duty], anybody that’s a private and serves two months in the Army knows that the maximum you can spend TDY is a 179 days, not 14 months. Anything over 180 days, if you reach a 180 days you have to get what they call PCS, which is Permanent Change of Status. I hope I’m making sense there.

After you were relocated to Germany as a result of your FOIA work [Stone has written a book based on UFO documents released by his use of the Freedom of Information Act], can you say what happened in terms of your continued work with the Project Moon Dust team?

C.S. Well in Germany it was much more open because I was telling the people then because I was getting disillusioned with some of the stuff we were doing. I never felt it was proper to try to make people look crazy when you knew that what they were reporting was accurate to the best of their ability. In short, you knew they saw an extraterrestrial vehicle. But our job was to convince them that what they saw was the Northern Lights, aircraft in unusual circumstances, meteors, and you totally, you had to do this.

That’s the protocol [used] in [the] Estimate of the Situation in 1948, even [Project] Blue Book. You go to the Project Sign, Report p. 10 (top of the page) which stipulates that we have looked at the possibility of UFOs being extraterrestrial spacecraft and really there’s no validity to it. And this conclusion will never be reviewed again barring hard physical evidence of all of this being examined and leaving extraterrestrial spacecraft as the only possible explanation.


Because we know throughout Blue Book there was possible, probable aircraft; possible, probable balloons; possible, probable astronomical phenomena. And after a year or so that became the conclusion whether it fit the scenario or not. With the conclusion you have people say no, no, no, I saw the planet Venus, it wasn’t planet Venus, well it was in the general proximity so now it became planet Venus. “No, no, no, I saw the jets, or the jets were there.” But now ‘they’ became ‘the’ jet. A good example was the Montana film in 1950 I believe, when the man filmed the UFOs but prior to that there was two F-94s coming in for a landing.


He told the Air Force: “hey, I saw the jets, that’s not what these were.” It was easy to go ahead and ascertain what the jets were. These came immediately after the jets, well if you know anything about the approach pattern you could very quickly ascertain that these were not coming in out of their approach pattern to land at that Air base. These were objects that had no intention of landing from any conventional sense.

When in Germany, did you have a regular assignment and how did that change when you went on to special duties with the recovery teams?

C.S. Oh, I was assigned in my proper MOS [Military Occupation Specialty], later they changed it 71 Lima which was an administrative specialist and then I served time in Germany as a 75 Zulu which they couldn’t award you that MOS because you had to be trained in it but I wasn’t, but I did a good job in it. When it came to administration and taking care of my troops, I was very, very good at that; and that’s what I did unless there was incident in the region you were in, and they decided they were going to use you.


The code word that was used with me was “the general sends his regards”. I didn’t know if there was a general involved or not since I never saw the general. I was told “bags to go”, so you grab your DA-50 bag, all your equipment will be packed and you kiss your wife and your children good bye and you left. You never knew if you were going to see them again. There were accidents where people didn’t return.

How long were the crash retrieval assignments?

C.S. Normally, it would be anywhere between three to seven days. There was one incident where we had an
ongoing situation, actually two, in which they went ahead and … one of them lasted almost three months. Then my last time in Germany I went ahead and don’t know how long that would have lasted since we had situations going on in the Soviet Union and in Belgium.


And I got involved in that. And then there was also some stuff going on in South Africa and I was told I would be leading a company tour there, and that I would not be expected to bring my family. That’s how I know for a fact that it wasn’t the Army that had control over this because I put in my request for retirement through army channels and didn’t mention it to the powers that be on the other side that had operational control of the UFOaspect.

They found out two days prior to me retiring that I was expected to report to Fort Bliss, I reported there and they told me that they needed to reattach me since my retirement hadn’t been approved. I said: “no, no, no, here’s a letter from my first Sergeant saying it, here’s a letter from my personnel center. It’s been approved guys.” Nope, you don’t have any orders. I said the orders were cut back in my unit in Augsburg Germany. I said you can call them, and they said no, no, the Department of the Army says you are to be attached for two months here.


So I was supposed to get out effective on December, but I didn’t get out effective … until February 1, 1990. And the only reason I did that, the one guy I always called the Colonel; he told me well we are going to keep you. So I went ahead and laid out each of those documents showing that there was something wrong, I said you know there’s a letter, a very long letter that explains all this stuff here, with the regulation that says barring we’re at war, you can’t do this to me.

Now they may not buy the UFO aspect of it but I’m sure some of the media are going to be asking questions. So I convinced him my friend here in Roswell, a guy by the name of Ralph Pike had a hundred fifty envelopes, and if he didn’t get a call from me midnight of that day saying I was getting out of the Army that he was going to send those out. They were already packaged and ready to go. And at least some would be asking questions about that. So I managed to get out and I got my retirement effective February 1st.


The only thing I couldn’t do, I couldn’t go through a retirement ceremony. The first Sergeant had to keep me that whole day with him, at the unit I was attached to, and he didn’t like that at all. He felt I was being treated unjust, it wasn’t morally right, I served 22 and half years in the service and I was entitled to the recognition, but I didn’t mind that. The one thing I wanted was that I was getting out.

I had some problems here in Roswell believe it or not. Roswell hasn’t always been the UFO friendly city. Matter of fact when I started saying here, what happened here happened [1947 crash], when I started talking openly when I was assigned here there was efforts to try to court martial me and everything. I had to be careful in what I said, and it wasn’t until the death of my son that I came out and told my family, “OK look, here’s what I had been doing; when I was gone all those times, here’s what was going on”. Then I told some other people, that’s when I first started talking.

How were the records purged of your specialized training while in the service?

C.S. For example I had to do some investigative work. In connection to that … I had to take MP courses, and I took those. Then the Army even tried to do away [with that] so there’s no record of that even happening. But I have the records from my 2-1’s that shows that I really did take those courses. One guy he was a 71-M … which is a chaplain’s assistant, he was a person who took pictures, he was a photographer, but by Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) he was in fact a chaplain’s assistant.


The military provided the commercial means, the camera equipment that he needed, even to developing his own film. They even sent to school. He was trained at Texas Central College and the University of Maryland….

Did you write your experiences and why did you decide to go public?

C.S. Ok, she [my wife] had stuff that I had started to write right prior to the death of my son that was actually going to be intended just for my family at the time of my death. But I’m working on it now trying to get it out. When I went into the military, the Vietnam War was on, and I really wanted to get in because I believed I had a moral obligation to serve my country.


And whether I recognized Vietnam as a war or not is immaterial, it [Vietnam] was at war, my country was at war and I had an obligation to serve my country. So when I got in I was very thankful that I got in. But, as I always said, my momma didn’t raise no fool; so I wasn’t going to bring up the subject of UFOs in the military. But the subject was brought up to me and slowly but surely I was slowly indoctrinated into it.

It was supposedly at a seminar for the NBC officers, what we call the OIC, the Officers in Charge, of the NBC quick reaction team that we saw, myself and another airman. I was in the army, we had Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines all involved, the unit, the NBC non-commissioned officer all of them are trained there at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. It makes no difference if they were Army, Air Force, Navy or Marines, they are trained there.


But we were up there when we first thought we were seeing trailers of sci-fi movies, but you know we both thought we had seen them all and we could not identify some of the things we were seeing. It wasn’t too long after that that we were no longer alone. And they took us and actually threw us into the panel van and took us to a wooden frame one story building and kept us there. For him [the airman] it was three days, for me it went for a total of five. That was a Monday and I didn’t get out until that Friday.

With the documents that you have in your possession, I have read that some of those are classified, I just want to know how you have access to those if they are still classified as opposed to de-classified documents where there’s no offense in having those in possession. So do you still have classified documents and if so why?

C.S. One, I wouldn’t want to lie to you; and two, that’s a question I wouldn’t answer over the phone. You know the old adage that right now it’s a violation of title 18 USC section 793-799 if you have any kind of classified documentation in your possession, and that carries a $10,000 fine and ten years imprisonment on each count. Since UFOs are not supposed to exist, the US government can’t really come after me for having something that would be non-existent.

In the 1980’ and 90s you begin to initiate a series of FOIA requests that got a lot of information on projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly so was it your service on the crash retrieval teams and the knowledge you gained through those assignments that basically led to those requests being made?

C.S. Well, actually it goes back to the late 1970s when I was in Europe, I’d get certified and confidential packets from the government because they already knew that I had certain information that didn’t look like it was in some of those documents, and as an end result they would send those where I had to sign for them. A couple of times they would send them: “to the Commander of”. The Navy is notorious for that. Of course, the commander had no idea of why they were doing that.


He was aware of my interest in UFOs, and when my wife complained about me spending a lot of long hours working, both my commander and first Sergeant said: “OK you’re right, he’s lost leave time, he’s working seven days a week; we need to put an end to that.” But of course, they couldn’t whenever there was a UFO incident or something came up, you were gone, it was that simple. It’s not like having a job where you can say: “I don’t like this work, I quit.” You can’t do that in the military.

So it was a situation where there was nothing my commander and my first Sergeant could do, and what made it more worse was they couldn’t explain it to my wife. Actually they didn’t know. All they knew was that there was something involved with UFOs that was having me put in those long hours. They didn’t know what. They knew about the mail I was getting that it would be registered and certified. They also knew that FOIA did not work that way. There should be no need for the added expense for registered mail and certified mail. And also I always had the ‘snowflake’ there where I would have to sign for the documentation. The ‘snowflake’ reflected that it was a FOIA request, unclassified, but the intent of that was that if I ever go ahead and release information that was above and beyond what was in those documents I’d be held accountable.

So from the late 1970’s and onwards you put in all of those FOIA requests using your own personal experiences to basically get the most sensitive information that would then give you a cover to speak more about exactly what was happening?

C.S. Absolutely, for example, there exists a form, a document, titled “Aid to Identify UFOs”. Now that document is put out by Wright Patterson, the equivalent of the Air Tactical Intelligence Center, or the Air Foreign Intelligence Center is what I think they call it now, to aid them in identifying UFO reports that are submitted through the CIRVIS channel [Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings].


Now a lot of people think that the Air Force doesn’t investigate UFOs any more. Well, Air Force Instruction (AFI) 10-206, chapter 5, dated March 10, 2004, still requires as a matter of routine reporting procedures that certain items be reported as matters of vital intelligence to the security of the United States and the North American continent.

One of those items is UFO’s and they go into great detail as to what type of information needs to be provided when reporting a UFO, that’s in that same chapter. If you see an unidentified submarine, no big gig, you know it’s a submarine. If you see an unidentified aircraft, no big gig you know it’s a conventional type aircraft. If you see unusual troop movements, unusual military vehicle movements, you know what all those are. You go ahead and report the make up of those, configuration of the aircraft, any outstanding features on the submarine, all this stuff, not a real problem.


But when it comes to UFOs, now you have a problem… anything that would indicate that there was some type of advanced technology that was involved. And of course that doesn’t mean they are looking for an interplanetary spacecraft, but they can come right back and say, you know an unconventional aircraft is going to appear as a UFO to an observer who’s never observed one before. So they always have that to come back on.


However, to eliminate all possibilities, while this document is not classified, it’s for internal use only. And it ties in with the NORAD Instruction, I think it’s 10-19; which, with a CIRVIS report, it’s supposed to be sent to NORAD, and they are supposed to ascertain threat or no threat. Well in order to ascertain threat or no threat you have to ascertain origin of the object and what the object was.

It’s just like July 26, 2002, the UFOs over Washington D.C., the Air Force didn’t have much to say about that. They referred to it as a “target of interest”. Well it was too close to the White House for them not to be concerned or even alarmed. And a lot of people think they got up there, and it took off, and they didn’t find out who it was. Well if it was a conventional aircraft they could give you the name of the pilot and I have documentation to prove this with the type of radar we have.


We have what’s called ‘space time, real time’ radar, and you better believe that we can track an aircraft to where it lands. Relatively new but at that time it was in operation and I know in that area they had that radar in operation.

So that would be part of the new intelligence team or new intelligence section that works with Measurement and Signature IntelligenceMASINT.

C.S. Of what?

Measurement and Signature Intelligence its one of the new branches of intelligence gathering, that would include the kind of radar tracking that you just described.

C.S. It probably would be. Remember I only got bits of this since I was in the Army and not the Air Force, and they didn’t sit you down to give you all the information so when you got out you could talk about it. The least you knew the better off you were. They also did psychological profiles on probabilities of people talking once they got out. I had a 70%. Which meant there was a 70% probability that I would never speak of some of the things that had happened.


Which is probably why they wanted me to stay in. A 100% probability that I wouldn’t speak while I was in the military, even though I did there at the end start talking out. But, even then I had to be very careful. In short, it had to be: “well this is what other people are saying; well, this is some of the stuff I know about,” but I couldn’t come out and hit up, yes, this is what I’m working with. These are some of the things when you’re sleeping at night, we’re still awake and doing things like this.

Can you just very briefly explain your precise role when you were working on those retrieval teams, being for example the first team to go in that you were playing that role of actually entering into the vehicle, to then relay back to the other teams whatever other information they needed in order to come in safely? In other words you were the first one in there.

C.S. We took radiation readings and things of this sort, and we also took steps of trying to identify any type of biological hazard that might be there, but the real purpose for me being involved point blank was to act as an interface. Whether you believe this or not, the intent is to communicate with the entity on the ship, or on the craft.

And that was always done with crashes? Your skill was not used in some classified project to communicate with EBEs; it was always done in terms of any EBEs on a crashed disk?

C.S. Well with me, the two things the military did with me, for example, I would always have a guardian that would always, because I thought I should have a higher security clearance for some of the stuff I was doing. Oh no, no, they shut you up if you do push for that. Well any time I needed a security clearance, I had whatever security clearance to do whatever it was they wanted me to do. You were debriefed afterwards and you sign the non-disclosure agreement, but it’s not supposed to work that way. It’s supposed to be that they give you that on a one time basis, on a “need to know” and that’s where it stops short of getting the actual clearance and being fully briefed into the job.

Well one thing they wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m certain of that. It was never explained to me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school, and I was very good at not going. The closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of going ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on it being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for non-commissioned officers….


Part 2.

C.S. Well one thing they [military controllers of UFO information] wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m certain of that. It was never explained to me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school, and I was very good at not going.


The closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of going ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on it being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for non-commissioned officers….

M.S. With that ‘school’, what information were you aware of in terms of what was taught there, where it was located and the sort of people they sent there?

C.S. I was not aware of where it was located, what was taught. I got to meet some people who went there and to me they were scary. It was like, you know, even enlisted people were above reproach. I mean, it was like “your station in life is less than mine because I know secrets that no one else knows.” It’s hard to explain but there’s something sinister about the people when they came back from the school.


M.S. That ‘scariness’ or ‘sinister’ quality that they had, was that in any way related to their intelligence? Was there some kind of intelligence enhancement that went with that training, or was it purely because of their demeanor that they believed they were a cut above the rest of the services?

C.S. I would say it was the demeanor. For example, there was one person I met while I was there at Keesler [Air Force base] who felt for sure that they obviously were going to kill me because I was talking. I said I’m very careful about what I say, and the documentation I always make sure it’s released officially through the U.S. government. Anyhow, what they did, this guy essentially wanted to be there in Mississippi, he wanted to be there until retirement, and this was an Air Force pilot. But he was working over at the atomic medicine research facility. I think that’s what they called it, there at Keesler Air Force base.


And they initially weren’t not going to send him there, but because of the incident he was involved in connection with Bentwaters [1980 “UFO incident in the United Kingdom] and they definitely did not want him to be out and about talking to people about his experience. That’s one the media never did pick up on. Well, anyhow, now he says: “if you want to ensure my silence, what you have to do is send me to Mississippi.” And actually he used a form of blackmail there but it worked. I don’t know why it worked, but in a sense it worked. They sent him there on the condition that he never talk of his situation.


But a mutual friend of ours who knew I was heavily involved in UFOs when he found out who I was and what I was doing at that time, he says you know you got to keep away from him because if they decide they are going to take him out, they aren’t picky, and if you’re there too you’ll be taken out too. You’d have two unsolved murders as opposed to one. But I never felt threatened, I never felt like there was going to be any repercussions, the only repercussions I had was when I was assigned here [Roswell] and they were hitting up on Paul Bennewitz [photo on right] and I got, how can I put this, I got very verbal about what they were doing to Paul.

M.S. What was it that you were aware of that they were doing to Paul that concerned you?

C.S. Paul was on to something, and he’s dead now. The person who they identified as ‘Falcon’ was involved with that.

M.S. Was that Richard Doty?

C.S. Richard Doty, and, Richard Doty I’m sorry is acting under orders. Paul had film footage, he had pictures, he had audio recordings of something ‘not found in nature’ is the best way to put it. And when he had the meeting with the Air Force personnel; well, [they said:] “yes, there’s something there but you know we no longer investigate UFOs so we aren’t really interested.” Well they were interested enough to get copies of everything that he had, but then it took a sinister side. The sinister side was to go ahead and drive this person totally insane. And that ultimately led to his untimely death.

M.S. Yes it’s a sad experience…

C.S. He was going to write a book. I have two or three of the chapters he was working on and I talked to him, and I tried to talk him out of it. But he was very impressed with Richard Doty, Special Agent Doty, and he trusted Doty emphatically. So much so that he trusted Doty with his life. And that could have been the ultimate big mistake. I haven’t heard it but I understand Doty went on a radio talk show and acknowledged that he was doing that under orders, and I firmly believe he was doing that under orders. Doty actually has been involved in several UFO incidents that are in the UFO field some of them are actually, I’m not going to call them a hoax, because there’s a difference between a hoax and officially sanctioned disinformation.

M.S. Can you describe any personal experiences you’ve had with extraterrestrials, and any different types of extraterrestrials that you have personal experience of?

C.S. Forgive me on this, but Paola [Harris – pictured on left with Sgt. Stone] had some of that material so let her share that with you. I know it sounds crazy, but if you ever come here [to Roswell] I made six hours of tapes talking about my experiences. But when I start talking, talking generalities I can do, but when I start talking you are actually having flashbacks, you are actually reliving it. I know that sounds crazy, you had to be there to understand it, but I mean you get all emotional and I prefer not to get that way.

M.S. Ok, we’ll leave that for another time then.…

C.S. You send me your address I’ll send you copies of those three tapes.

M.S. I’ll be very appreciative and whatever cost you go to in making those tapes I am more than happy to reimburse you.

C.S. I give my stuff freely. Right now we have two CD’s I put out, I’m selling those but I’ll send you even a copy of those. One CD has over 10,000 pages of UFO/government documentation. I’m working on another CD right now that has government records dealing with advanced propulsion systems. A lot of people aren’t even aware of the fact that we are working on Warp Drive, speculating about manipulating wormholes in space, and also anti-matter drive. They think this is all stuff of science fiction, I have government documents where I can prove what I just told you is not science fiction but science fact and we’re working on it.

M.S. Thank you, I would appreciate all of that information. A question about 2001 National Press Club interview you were on … according to an [earlier] interview you were actually encouraged to go to that Press Club [Conference] by the covert authorities monitoring you, so why did they encourage you to go to that Press Conference? What does that signify?

C.S. The fact behind it is that they didn’t feel overly threatened by me going; actually initially I wasn’t going to go. I don’t know if Paola [Harris] told you that but initially I was not going to go. There were several other times where I had been invited, when they had it in the years prior, and even my supervisor was approached and told that I was not to have leave at that time. But things worked out, it’s like things falling into place to where I got to go and there was no effort to try to prevent me from going.


So a lot of the people felt that they were sanctioning me going there.

When it comes to the UFO field, the U.S., government doesn’t care about what you say; they care a whole lot about what you can prove. For example, if you were to come here and ask me to go to Corona with you to the crash site, I won’t go. The last time I was out there was in 1987 and a lot of people think that threats made there at that time, they no longer apply. Yes, they do. We went out there to gather pieces from a cave, we found the cave, we hit up on the pieces. I can’t tell you where that cave is, I couldn’t probably even find it, but if I should happen upon it, I’ve already talked about some of the things that could be in that cave so therefore if it was there it would give strong circumstantial evidence that I was there before.


And the possibility of certain things that we may have overlooked, which I doubt, might still be there and other people finding things. If you ever saw the pieces of what really crashed here, there’d be no doubt in your mind that the material, you don’t have to touch it. Just seeing it, you would know it’s something you never saw before. Back then you’d have absolutely have known that it was not of this world. When I had Ralph Pike here, he got to see bits ‘n pieces because I had in a cigar box and I was waiting for a person to come and pick it up. And of course, I had to be armed at that time and I told him don’t ask questions, don’t even pick it up, and I was sorry that he saw it. But he knew, without even touching it, he knew.

M.S. Can you maybe speculate a little about your role in a possible acclimation program? I mean you have a lot of information, you have a lot of documents, and you’re able to give this out to the general public. Is this just a result of you being aware of the boundaries that you should not cross in order to preserve your own safety and security, or is it because there is an acclimation program and you may actually be a part of this?

C.S. Well, I’m hoping that I’m doing something worthwhile by trying to get information out there. In other words, in having people read the documentation and think on their own, and I cannot see a person reading the documentation and not coming away saying, you know there’s something to the UFO phenomenon that we still don’t have answers for; and if there’s an intelligence behind it, that intelligence didn’t originate on this Earth. And that right there is actually my goal, my goal is to get people to go ahead, think on their own, read the documentation, and come to their own conclusions.


And if they read the documentation with an open mind there’s no way, no way that a person can come away and say there’s nothing to UFOs. There’s no way they can come and say there’s no intelligence behind the phenomenon. There’s no way they can come away and say, gee, this is just some of our new inventions, and this is some of our new technology. No, its not. That technology in 1947 is the same technology that’s being observed with UFOs today. And we didn’t have that technology in 1947; we cannot replicate some of the things that UFOs do even to this day.

Most people, if you had a UFO flying high in the sky, most people would ignore [it]. Today, in order for a UFO to be reported, a person has to see a UFO up close; and it has to be an incident of high strangeness, or it’s simply an incident that’s totally ignored.


The CIA when they released their report they said they did it in 1997. Actually it was in 1995 when they said the Air Force even lied to cover up some of our Top Secret aircraft, like the U2 and the SR-71 [image on left]. Well the whole story in a nutshell is that I defy the Central Intelligence community or the Air Force to produce 10 documents showing where a UFO was in reality a U2 or SR-71.


I’m telling you right now they can’t do that, therefore that particular part of the article is an outright lie. The Continental Air Intelligence Command, later to be the United States Air Force Intelligence Command, they would have had a record, maybe Top Secret, because what you see in Blue Book is not all the records as they are since you have documentation that was classified at a Top Secret level. Blue Book was only classified for Secret, anything Top Secret and above; meaning Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmented Information could not be part of Blue Book.

Another good example, everybody thinks that little report they have in there [Project BlueBook], the Project Twinkle final report, they think that’s the report on the Green fireball phenomena. It is not, that report is yet to surface. That’s why you have that little statement there that says back in the 1950’s [Blue Book] was looking at the Green Fireball phenomenon. The final report has never been made public to the US government. They’re not referring to that report in there (Project BlueBook) that I think had a confidential rating, they’re referring to a Top Secret report. Now how do I know there was a Top Secret report? Simply put, the FBI files make reference to the meetings and the staff studies that were being done on the Green Fireball phenomenon, some of those papers are at a Top Secret level.


There’s no mention of those documents in the Blue Book files. As a matter of fact, the only thing you have short of case studies are case reports dealing with the Green Fireball phenomenon is that final report, but that is not the final report having the recommendations and conclusions. That report makes it clear that they couldn’t come up with any answers. It also makes it clear, that these were, at the time you couldn’t say interplanetary, therefore they said these objects were of a category of their own outside of the other reported UFOs, and that these definitely were man made objects.


Now ‘man made’ meaning they were artificial, we now know that no power on the face of this planet made them, so who did make them? We also know that we should have found debris where they would have impacted with the Earth if they were meteors or man made objects. However, that never happened, Dr Lincoln La Paz was one of the people who observed a green fireball, and said this is some type of mechanical devise and of course he said it was man made. Once again his credentials prevent him to say any possibility of them being interplanetary, but he stopped short of saying they were interplanetary. He was very good at finding impact sites of meteors, not one impact site of the green fireballs was ever located….


 I want to ask, in an earlier interview that has been done you described an agent who was assigned to observe you who calls you ‘Colonel’, why is that?

C.S. Well, I didn’t know what to call him, he acted like an army Colonel so I called him Colonel.

M.S. I see so there was no incident where you were called ‘the Colonel’.

C.S. No, the only time I was called an officer was a couple of occasions where I had to go undercover and posed as an Air Force Lieutenant.

M.S. There is an incident where Kevin Randle [pictured right] says that you pointed to a sticker on your car that was supposedly a blue sticker used by officers, and Kevin Randle said something about that was only for officers rather than NCOs, and he used that as a means to try to debunk your case. Do you recall that incident with Kevin Randle?

C.S. No, I didn’t point that out to him at all; I didn’t want it to be pointed out to him. And he’s a hundred percent wrong. Your sticker is blue, it used to be that red was for NCOs, well now your sticker is blue, but for the year, for the ending year that time, and I assume its still the same way, I had an officer’s sticker. It was Ralph [Pike] that pointed it to him and Ralph’s Dad was in the Air Force, he was retired Air Force. Ralph knew and the reason he was impressed about it, I tried not to call attention to it, but yes I had to have that sticker for that period of time.

M.S. And that was only because there was a change over from red and blue that you had that sticker?

C.S. No, I had to go some place where only officers were supposed to go. One thing it was an officer’s sticker. For the ending year that would have been red, your sticker is blue, for the ending year if you’re a Non-Comm it’s red, now I think they have multicolors for all different things … There’s a caste system in the military, so you had blue for officers, red for Non-Comm’s, orange for junior enlisted, and green for civilians. Now it used to be that the whole sticker was that way, but then they changed it to where you get a blue sticker now that says Department of Defense and all that good stuff, you have a sticker underneath that says like Cannon Air Force base. Well that color also mandates the status of that person whether they are civilian, enlisted or officer. Well mine was 100% blue.

He’s [Randle] making reference to the DOD sticker that has to be there on the car, and not the Air base or installation from which it came which should have been red. Not the end of the year or the year it should have expired which should have been red, but mine was blue. It was a friend of mine, Ralph Pike that pointed out to him. The reason Ralph pointed it out to him was that Ralph didn’t even notice it. So we went to the gate at Holloman Air Force base and as soon as they see it and recognize it as an officer’s they had to salute. So I was being saluted, and he said: “what kind of sticker do you have on your car?” [I said:] “The guy’s probably just mistaken me for someone who works here, so we got out.” He said, “you’ve got an officer’s sticker on your car.” So I just tried to play it off.

M.S. That officer’s sticker on your car that was purely so you could have access to certain parts of the base where only officers could go, and this was during your retirement?

C.S. This was right at the end of my retirement. It was the first year of retirement that that was there.

M.S. So, you still had access to certain areas in that first year of your retirement on a military base where only officers could go.

C.S. Yes

M.S. Was that related to you doing some follow up work?

C.S. Yes it was. There were two bases involved, well actually three, but two where I needed to get locations where upon entering there would be that recognition of officer’s status, and when I got there, there would be recognition as a civilian consultant.

M.S. So the implication there is that even though you were officially retired in 1990 that you still were playing a role using the skills that you had acquired primarily as an interface [with extraterrestrials] for the military. They would just call you when they had a need?

C.S. No, I think it was more like tracking me, “what am I doing now a days and all that good stuff”. They knew I was working on the first book that I was actually going to put out while I was in the military. It was called, “UFOs let the Evidence Speak for Itself”. Actually there are words in there that people think are misspelt, if they knew the meaning of the word they’d know it’s not misspelt. And of course I provided three times for a classification of security review, and each time the manuscript got lost. So I went ahead and self-published it.


That book came out and there were some concerns about some of the stuff that I was saying in there, and some of the documents that was in there, and what I might still have. So there was always that, well you know we still have an interest in this case here, and oh by the way you were involved in this case here, and you’d go actually over a couple of cups of coffees a debriefing. Only they wouldn’t try to set it up like a debriefing. Stuff like you and the other guy talking, he was taking notes and you could be rest assured that the conversation was being recorded.

M.S. In terms of yourself and your retirement, in what ways have you been monitored? Are you aware of any kind of special mechanism to monitor someone like you that is playing a role in releasing a lot of information?

C.S. Oh, there was a couple of times when the media was here that strange things happened. There was one person here recording … she was here one morning and I can’t remember what it was she was recording, but while she was here as a matter of fact I got a call and was told be very careful what I say, be very careful with what I show. I think that had to do with the fact that one of the news articles that went out when I was here I had a big black book on the table, and I had a roll of super 8 mm film.


Of course they took pictures of it, one roll which was loose laying by itself. Nobody even noticed that, and that one I would say is interesting. I won’t go into detail into what was on it, but that was more interesting than the other. But that got the message out when the picture appeared in the newspaper that I had those three items, that no effort was made until I got careless talking to another UFO researcher [by phone] and he said do you have the you-know-what still there, and finally he mentioned it? Well the you-know-what was film footage of the “Holloman Landing”, so I’m going to say it this time, “they got that back”. And that was within minutes after the phone call.


M.S. With that Holloman landing what year did that occur and what did it show?

C.S. I firmly believe that that happened in 1965, I firmly believe that was when the incident occurred. The lead on the film had April 25, 1965 on it, as part of the info as to when the film was taken and everything, and also referred to SSP which was Special Studies Project. It made no reference to Blue Book. That Special Studies Project, I can’t remember anything else that was on the lead, it was on the very first part of the tape when you put it on the spool. It showed a roughly circular craft coming in for a landing at Holloman Air Force base, I believe there were three people that got out.


One person got in a sedan, a Ford Galaxy, a 1965 Ford Galaxy with several officers and drove off. It looked like some kind of communication had taken place before they got into the vehicle and drove off. There were several other vehicles there, probably about 20 people, that was involved. Not all of them in military uniform at the landing.


Also, it was quite clear that they knew the landing was going to occur. It [the film] initially shows how they are setting up the field, setting up the cameras, getting ready, it makes reference to a test launch of a missile that was going to be tested. I don’t believe it was a missile that was going to be tested; they start showing this little speck of light off there in the distance.


It gets closer and closer until finally you can see definition of it. Landing gear comes down, it comes down directly down to ground, a door underneath the carriage opens up, drops down and the three entities walk out.


One goes to the left, stands to the left side of the craft, one goes to the right, the entity that for lack of a better term is the leader comes out, and carries on a conversation with the officer. Well I can tell you that it was a full bird Colonel that was there.

M.S. What did the extraterrestrial look like?

C.S. Roughly five foot, actually five foot four, and I had some people tell me it looked like it had Indian features. To me the features were more oriental. The pupils of the eyes were a little different than our pupil, and I’d say even more so like cat’s eyes. They had olive skin, the suit that it had on was a tight fitting jump suit complete all the way over the head with just the face appearing. They had a darker complexion, it’s hard to describe the complexion, but not white not gray. The nose seemed a little out of place, larger than what you’d expect…

M.S. In some interview, I believe it was with Paola [Harris], you mentioned that you knew of, or the government was aware of 57 ET races, where did you get that information from?

C.S. That information was from a little publication that they had that the person I called the Colonel always carried [with] him. … It was a little booklet that he carried, actually a little thick booklet, a loose leaf notebook type situation. But the intent of cataloguing the different species was so that they could render the best first aid they could in identifying which species they had at any given location.

M.S. Did you ever take a look at this little booklet or was it something he told you about?

C.S. No, no, I got to see and got to look at it. He was pretty good with me. As a matter of fact even when I got out, from time to time I’d still have contact with him.

M.S. With that little booklet, how did it describe the races was it a kind of genotype in terms of physical characteristic or was it from star system of origin?

C.S. The way they would break it down is like they would have various types. For example like when it came to the Grays they had the 3 foot, 3½ foot category, they would go ahead and write type, 1 type 2, type 3. They moved on to the ones that had human characteristics, then they would go ahead and identify by a code, the entity there. Like, they would have like “zebra-harry dosh”. So this right here would be ones that are like 3, 3½ feet tall, but they were covered with hair.


Another one would be like “able-[Yeti] what’s the word? It’s a word we use all the time like ‘abominable snow man’ [Yeti]. This would be the tall hairy creature. They would go ahead and have like Charlie 1, Charlie 2, all the way to I think to Charlie 5. And humanoid, and they would go ahead and have “Earth based 1”, ‘Earth based 2’, ‘Earth based 3’. Now this right here, that code meant something to the Colonel. See to you and I it wouldn’t mean anything. It would give us a description. It would also either include a drawing or a photograph. So it wasn’t just one or two pages on each entity you had ten, fifteen pages … [for a booklet of about 1000 pages].

M.S. Can you explain how operational security was maintained for the retrieval projects you worked on?

C.S. So, we call it something like Operation or Project Horsefly akin to Project Bluefly. Well you didn’t do that. Bluefly was already there. Bluefly could handle it all. Now, you have an extraterrestrial spacecraft, then fine, you have a whole new avenue where you send the debris and everything, versus the avenue of the aftermath of a crash of an aircraft. But up to that point it’s all the same, and that’s where people get off. They don’t stop to think you don’t reinvent the wheel. You have 35 or so, up to 70 if you have both teams there. Military people who are doing a normal function, outside of the fact now for the first time they realize they are face to face with something not of this world. But they are never going to be able to talk about it.


That, up to that time, the policy is already there in place for things like nuclear, biological, chemical accidents, crash of aircraft.

You also have what we call “officially sanctioned deception programs” should any information leak out to try to nullify or minimize any damage by information leaking out. “Hey that wasn’t a pipe craft that crashed”, that was a thirty foot saucer. So you have that already in place, you have your PR people there, public affairs that are ready to go out and try to nullify if any information got out to the contrary – if you check. Well a good example is what happened here at Roswell.


It was the Air Force themselves that released the fact that it was a flying disk that was recovered, that was an accident. It wasn’t an accident when they went ahead and exposed a Top Secret program to keep people from asking questions about something that was more important, i.e., the recovery of a crashed disk. But, they came out and said we have a captured disk. And the next day they came out and said, “nope nothing more than a weather balloon”. And of course there was all this debris that was mentioned.


Well, how do you go ahead and nullify that? Well, I believe it was the Air Force that comes out with a story of the multiple balloon and rolling targets they were testing at Holloman Air Force base. Well, what they were talking about was Project Mogul. Project Mogul at the time was a Top Secret project. Yet there it was in black and white for the whole world to see. So what they did was they exposed Top Secret Project Mogul to cover for whatever it was they recovered here [at Roswell].

Those programs are already put into place. There’s no detour from the procedure, until one, you’ve got a UFO; two, that book that has been referred to (if you ever hear them mention ‘the bible’, that’s what they are talking about) that tells you the details you need to take. And your time is limited, because rest assured a rescue party is on its way to recover any of their dead or any of their injured, or those that are still alive. The one thing I don’t believe in is pickled bodies.


MS: Did you ever, when your were doing any retrievals, actually witness some of the retrieval teams of the ETs themselves coming to get their own people? Was this something you ever witnessed?

C.S. I was close but no cigar… Actually I had to be put close and be on standby and that right there was a little situation that took place at Lamboy Woods there in Germany.


M.S. My last question is about the system set up to oversee all these [UFO related] projects. Do you have any information about the so called MJ-12 committee or PI-40? Any information about who’s actually in charge of the projects and how these decisions are made?



C.S. No, I don’t. During all my time in there I never heard MJ-12, I never heard Majestic. But that doesn’t mean [they aren’t real], that’s why I keep an open mind. I’m not ready to accept the MJ-12 documents right now, but I do keep an open mind on it. I believe Ryan Wood, I’ve met him personally; I don’t believe that he would be trying to perpetrate a hoax or something like that. I honestly don’t believe he is of that caliber. He honestly believes in those documents. That’s my honest opinion of Ryan. But by me not seeing them and not being exposed to them, that doesn’t mean that they weren’t there. It’s like Moon Dust and Bluefly, working in Moon Dust and Bluefly I still didn’t know what the names were. It was quite by accident that I found out, that caused me to start asking.

M.S. That was the series of questions I had down prior to the interview, so I just want to leave it open now for you. If there’s anything you want to say that lies ahead [for you]? Anything you have planned, activities to continue to release information or some other activity you’re involved in with regard to what you’ve experienced?

C.S. Well, as for me, I’m going to continue to push to try to get the documentation that I know is there; that I know was not destroyed; that proves conclusively we are not alone in the universe; and that we know it. The documentation that will prove that UFOs are a reality, that people have seen them. The documentation that will prove once and for all that they are interplanetary. I’m also going to continue to release on CD, documents as I said on UFOs and also to the best of my abilities on various other such stuff such as missile defense, space debris, advanced concepts and advanced technology, because I believe a lot of people aren’t aware of where we are trying to go and I am quite certain that when it comes to the advanced propulsion systems as it applies to space travel we have made quantum leaps. You don’t go from Neanderthal man, to a certified CPA in New York. There has to be some time of evolution that takes place there, and what I’m seeing is that you have a selfless camel and then all of a sudden you have interstellar space craft.

You have the Department of Defense R&D that comes out with some very interesting technology; then they give it to private enterprise and say, “this is what we’ve come up with, see what you can do with it now.” So it looks like it came from public sectors, but in reality it came from military sectors. But that’s where the tie in kind of breaks off, the Department of Defense R&D is constantly putting new technology into the hands of universities and private enterprise.


That technology is then being assessed as our own technology and even further improved because they have more minds better involved in doing the R& D on that particular technology. But the one thing that’s missing is the evolution of that technology, say from microchip to becoming a fully fledged computer. In short, some of our technology, while we may have improved it, it still is not as good as they have, and we got the idea from them and we got a boost from them.

I don’t want to take anything away from the intelligence of man, we would eventually get there all on our own, but I think we are being pushed ahead by some of the technology we are coming into contact with. We are not going to be able to back engineer an entire craft but rest assured we can back engineer crudely some bits and pieces. After all, if your technology is at the state of what we have today, and you come into possession of technology that may be one to two billion years … ahead of us, I suggest we have no idea of what the state of the art technology is in the year 2055 let alone one to two billion years down the road…

M.S. Thank you for your time it’s really been very helpful, you’ve given me much information and a lot to think about. I really

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